hank
Plonkee inspired me the other day in writing “would you move for a lower cost of living? to craft up an “other side of the coin” post to ponder - How much would it cost for YOU to move to a war torn area for a year in search of big bucks?
A Tough Decision
My friend was making a decent 60k to do his I.T. job here in the states and was contacted by the Department of Defense to do the exact same job for $290,000, but the caveat was clearly that it was in Iraq.
It is/was an interesting situation to be in for sure. The lure of 290k certainly has its justification, but at what price I thought.
I know we have soldiers over there doing it for much less in much more dangerous locations; yea, I wondered the same thing, how is there a “safe” spot to be in Iraq I thought.
That’s like saying there are some spots in the ocean that are wetter than the rest. I’d be un-nerved either way. I have a TON of respect for our troops over there!
But as this relates to a financial situation I had to ask him about what his wife and kids thought of the situation. I can tell you plain and simple that his wife didn’t like it. She didn’t like it one bit.
I think that I am good at seeing both sides of the coin though:
Her Point
He has 3 kids and a wife to worry about at home. I don’t recall if he said she is working now or not, but let us just assume that she isn’t for now.
At 290k she could probably afford to stay home if she wanted to, but clearly that’s not her concern. He’s got a family to provide for and without him around in a worse case scenario there really isn’t a dollar value you can put on his replacement.
Furthermore, I’ve done the long-distance relationship thing and that doesn’t work. She’s mentioned that also. A year apart from your loved ones can really wear on you and can’t be predetermined what the end result will be.
His Point
He came from a company that recently went bankrupt. He completely lost his retirement account to which he had 100k+ saved up. He is 38 years old and has nothing to show for it.
He’s squeaking by on 60k a year in Seattle with a wife that isn’t working and 3 growing kids and doesn’t see a light at the end of any tunnels. He’s got to start fresh and that’s a lot of bank to come up on.
His kids are starting middle and high school and eventually will have to get into college. He wants to be able to pay for their college, and with nothing left for him afterwards, he’s looking out for his wife and himself.
One year there and he could be back to what he lost in his retirement account. He’s pushing 40 now and the idea itself carries some weight, but I’m lost honestly.
I haven’t been put into that position to need to make that type of decision. Right now, where I’m at currently, I can’t see going, even for that kind of $. My wife and kids need me and even though I’ve got a pretty decent insurance policy I just couldn’t do it.
My days would likely be spent 18 hours on the job and back to my re-enforced bunker to hide out until I went back to work. Wouldn’t I? Would it be that bad? I don’t know.
I suppose I’d need some 
more info on the setup, but from what I’ve seen and heard there isn’t a lot of downtime or sight seeing.
You’d Be Helping Your Country
Yes, I buy that. I would be and that would make me proud but it comes down to options. I have the option to move or not to move. I have no clue about anything in regards to firearms or warzone tactics. Is that risk worth taking?
I’m sure I could be trained and they likely would put me through a civilian “boot camp” of sorts, but still, the guys that are over there now are very well trained, I’d just be mediocrely trained.
Conclusion
It’s high risk for sure - especially not knowing what you’re getting in to, but money can make you do some very 
risky things, including putting your life on the line. What is your break point?
I can’t see myself bending for much more than $1MIL right now, but hell, even at that price I’d have my doubts. Until it was actually put in front of me, I couldn’t actually wrap my head around it.
I’ve tried. Believe me, I’ve tried to wrap my head around it and what the pros and cons are, but am still coming up empty.
What are your thoughts? What would be your tipping point to considering heading to Iraq for a year without your family?
What would be enough to make you comfortable in doing so? Would your significant agree with you?
****Update****
So I’ve gotten a handful of emails and comments in this section asking where to sign up for jobs like this and there are plenty of places to look for a job there - Google turns up a few:
http://www.alliraqjobs.com/
http://iraq.jobs.com/
http://federalgovernmentjobs.us/job-location/iraq.html
http://www.careers.state.gov/iraq-jobs/index.html
Hope that helps those of you interested!
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90 Comments
August 11th, 2008 at 4:13 am
Well, I might do it for the fun of going to a foreign country, especially if it was a job that I essentially already do. But not many women or non-Americans are going to get contracts in Iraq. $290k is a lot of money, it basically implies that either the job is hard or that the conditions are rubbish. I think that if you didn’t get to experience any of the local society it would lose it’s appeal for me, naturally I’d prefer to avoid kidnapping and the like, particularly as I know that the British government never negotiates.
plonkee’s last blog post..property prices and growth
August 11th, 2008 at 7:12 am
I have a son-in-law who was in Iraq for well over a year in the Army so I have heard first-hand accounts of what has happened.
If this were my decision to make I would probably say yes, and my wife would go along. We have a very strong relationship, and even now I go away for months at a time. Depending on the strength of your relationship with your spouse it can work.
Safety, well, that’s an interesting one. We have cities in the US that have more crime and conditions that are just as bad. Look at DC, Camden, NJ, it’s just as bad here in some places as over there. My perspective on death is that it’s not under my control. When it’s time to go, it’s time to go. You can die walking across the street.
Children will defintely be affected, so it’s important to stay in touch via phone, video call, and the trip home if allowed.
You will be making a huge sacrifice but the rewards can easily outway that, especially if you manage the money your earn wisely.
Just my two cents.
Money Intellect’s last blog post..What Can Willie Wonka Teach Us About Personal Finance?
August 11th, 2008 at 7:36 am
Heck no! My brother-in-law just got offered the same thing. He is a petroleum engineer for Shell. Dude, he would prefer the lesser amount and stay with his family and friends without the risk of meeting the reaper!
Tony,
Moolahblog.com
Drop12.com
August 11th, 2008 at 9:15 am
A huge sacrifice for sure. To me it would be committing sucide! Those contractors over there are targets. They are not trained like the military, they are unarmed. YES THE MONEY IS GOOD IF YOU MAKE IT OUT ALIVE. My husband was sent over there(national guard)and its not pretty! My son now reserves comtiplated doing that sort of thing you friend is wanting to do(he served in full time army in Afganistan)but since has changed his mind, thank god!
Can’t survive on $60,000 a year, I’m sorry I raised 4 kids on ALOT less than that! Move somewhere in the states where the cost of living isn’t so outragous!!
There that was my opinion
August 11th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Man… what a tough scenario……. it’d be hard to leave my wife for that long.
Good post Hank.
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August 11th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Hank, great post man. I would say if you had asked me that question a few years ago before I had a family I would say ‘Yes’ without a doubt. With a wife and baby on the way its a lot muddier of waters. Ive always had a certain amount of regret that I didnt enlist in the military for at least a while because I am a strong believer in it…and working for the government over there would be a way to help. As it is, I couldn’t leave my family, even for the money.
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August 11th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
I’m not married, so that part doesn’t factor into the equation for me, but for $290K I would go to Iraq for a year in a heart beat. It’s probably not taxed either since you’re in a war zone. 1 year of s*** which will help immensely for the rest of your life. If I were 40 and with no savings I would take the job even quicker! Does he want to work until he dies of old age?
August 11th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
I would never risk my life for money. I would never allow my husband to risk his.
Vered’s last blog post..I Am Watching You
August 12th, 2008 at 1:48 am
My family is the most important thing in the world to me. I would never intentionally put myself in danger for money (or anything else for that matter). You only get one life (on earth that is) - I say live life, glorify God in all you do, and let money fall where it may!
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August 12th, 2008 at 5:20 am
As a financial educator, I would advise him (along with his wife) to seek help with knowning the best way to living on the money he makes and becoming educated about financial matters (because knowledge is power), and stay safe for the sake of his wife and kids. No amount of money can replace him for his family.
August 12th, 2008 at 7:36 am
@Plonkee - the “never negotiate” clause might be enough to make me think long and hard about it. I like the cash, but also like the idea that I have someone to back me in case. However, I do understand their stance as well and can see that side of the coin also.
@Money Intellect - I’ve known a handful of folks that have gone over and back as well. It really does have a lot to do with your relationship. I don’t see my family being as accepting even if the money was right; I do applaud your bravery. It’s a good point about the cities that have trouble as well, but I can assure you that you won’t find most people there at night.
@Tony - Amazing what they’re offering, eh?
@danandmarsh - I also was raised on far less than that amount. It’s amazing the cost of living differences (mainly housing) that sticks it to you in the big city. He’s got a 60 mile drive each way to work as well, so the 120 mile round trip even with the commuter van he rides eats up 2.5 hours a day at minimum. It’s hard to find 60k doing the same thing in a lower cost of living area though.
@Kevin - thanks for the comment, indeed tough.
@Jesse - Absolutely a different scenario. I had the same idea back in 2003 - when my first child was on the way it really does muddy the waters on what you WANT to do and what you SHOULD be doing. Who’s right? In the eye of the beholder I reckon…
@Andrew - I applaud your bravery as well! Yes, 290k is likely not taxed and you’ve probably got all the room/board over there paid for so it is likely in your pocket $ as well (as long as you have a pocket to put it in when/if you return)!
@Vered - There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s a free country after all.
@Dusty - It’s a hard road to tow for sure and that’s part of the exercise I was trying to put myself through. IS there any number? A million? A billion? It’s tough to say until you’re actually put in that position.
@Sandy - Thanks for stopping by - I agree that he should look at maximizing the $ that he has, maybe look for work closer to home, put his time and money to better use, but again, it’s a scenario that I wouldn’t have a solid answer to unless I were faced with it.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
It certainly depends on your current situation. I entertain the thought of moving over there if I was single. With a wife and 3 kids, taking a job in Iraq for a year is a really tough decision. I think I would consider moving to a less expensive city first, but that’s my opinion.
-HIB
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August 12th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
It wouldn’t be worth it to me. I can make more money, not more time.
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August 13th, 2008 at 12:16 am
Hi Hank
I’m not sure their is any amount of money that would make it worth my while to risk my life in this way (I have 3 kids and a wife to think of). I think this is a single person’s job.
If he’s considering being away from his family for a whole year why not thow all his spare time into developing some kind of internet-based income (blogging, niche marketing, whatever). If he has a background in IT and could devote a good chunk of time each day to it he should be able to make a difference to his income over a year.
Trying to do two jobs at once is difficult but at least he would be home with his wife and family (you can take a weekend off from internet marketing but it’s a bit harder if you’re in Iraq). Also, if you make some kind of income on the internet it could carry on for a number of years or be a skill that you could apply to other business ventures/jobs.
I have experience of taking up contract work a long way from home (although not in a war zone) and looking back I don’t think it was worth it. We spent more money because we were unhappy and it got me used to an unsustainable income (around £100,000pa). I was also getting paid just for what I knew so career development was zero.
Having said all of that it is a difficult one, and everyone’s opinion on something like this is going to be different.
Neil
August 13th, 2008 at 11:24 am
290K not taxed? Sign me up.
No seriously, send me an e-mail. I’d go in a heartbeat.
No kids, no wife, and I love my country. and IT.
Interested in Seattle ~
DebtKid
DebtKid’s last blog post..What Am I?
August 13th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Wow. That is really something to think about. The money would surely be tempting but with 2 small daughters at home…I just couldn’t do it. Man, if I were single I would already have been on the plane.
Cool post and I love the blog.
T
August 14th, 2008 at 6:01 am
TEdwards - I totally agree.
One issue to consider even if you are single, is the effect on your parents. As someone who lost a sibling who was at the age of 37, I know what my parents went through and that is the worst pain in the world - the loss of a child - even an adult child.
August 14th, 2008 at 9:50 am
@HiB - I’m in the same situation. Kids and wives make it exponentially more difficult to decide!
@WriterDad - Very good point.
@Neil - Absolutely a viable alternative. Internet income is helping me to add a few things to my budget that I hadn’t in the past for sure. I’ll run it past him.
@DebtKid - I applaud your bravery as well (and desire for IT.)
@T Edwards - Thanks for the props, and like the other folks on the thread, the kids at home seem to be a big reason to stay at home. Unfortunately, many of the troops over there now are in the same situation, and in tougher conditions also.
@Sandy - I can imagine the pain also; the thought of having my kids go before me really tears me up.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
A co-worker’s husband recently returned from a one year contract in Iraq. While it was tough on them, he had two 10 day visits home in that year. He made great money, spoke with his wife at least once every day on cell phones, and had access to email, web cams, and other means of communications with his wife and children.
He even had a MySpace page where he posted updates and pictures. Was the job scary? Yes. But, it’s not like he falls of the face of the earth for a year.
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August 16th, 2008 at 11:18 am
If was young and single, the answer is simple: of course!
For me, I’d answer heck no just as easily if I was in his shoes today. There is plenty of time to prepare his kids to take responsibility for their education. Community college and then UW tuition is very affordable. His children could easy pay their way through school if they stayed at home.
Trading an entire year of his family’s life simply isn’t worth the 100K+ he’ll be allowed to keep after the government skims the top off of his paycheck.
Aaron Stroud’s last blog post..The real cost of that hamburger, movie, or kid
August 19th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
A friend of mine left the NYPD to go to Iraq (’04) to help train their police. His first three years was teaching basic police tactics but now teaches crime scene investigation in a class room. It’s all class room work and he works in a very secure area. He tells me it’s like working on a US military base in Germany or Japan. All earning are completely tax free.
His salary was / is…
Year 1 = $185,000
Year 2 = $225,000
Year 3 = $275,000
Year 4 and current year pay = $315,000
Year 5 if he chooses to renew = $380,000
He’s 44 years old and not married. He will renew for Year 5 and hopes to get a Year 6 offer for probably mid $400s. All his living expenses are paid for over there so 99% of what he makes goes into savings. At the end of year 5 he’ll have made almost $1.4 Million.
August 20th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Maybe if I could carry a gun……..I don’t know. That is one year of your life that you will never have back and sounds like you will be working the majority of the day with barely any leisure time?
Maybe if I had friends to go with I would consider.
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August 20th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
@Momma - Agreed, but I feel it is a tolerance that people are born with and very difficult to actually have to learn.
@Aaron - Rumor has it that Uncle Sam doesn’t skim off the top of Iraq service salaries, but I applaud your bravery!
@Ryan - Wow! That’s absolutely staggering to think of that kind of $ that can be made there - but it IS tough and dangerous and it’s good to see they’re rewarding people for putting their lives on the line!
@Zombie - I believe there are plenty of ways to inquire about work there for you and your buddies - one I came across was: http://www.civiliancontractorjobs.com/ - Sounds dangerous, but I applaud your bravery!
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:16 am
We really shouldn’t be afraid of going over to Iraq for work just because it’s “Iraq” or just because it’s “the middle east”. That’s just a close-minded ridiuclous approach. It’s actually a real country with real people who live their lives everyday. I would definitely consider this as it’s a move to secure a future for my family - but it depends on the location they put me in. There are plenty of “safe” areas in Iraq. Generally none of them are around US soldiers, nor around some key hot spots or big cities. But there’s a likely chance that your buddy could be placed in some region that may be quiet, residential, and potentially known for it’s beauty (hypothetically). And the tax implications make it that much more attractive.
Here’s a thought - if you were an Iraqi-American regular guy, would you visit your family back home? OF COURSE! The whole country isn’t a war zone - just the hot spots are.
InvestmentPlayground’s last blog post..The Benefits of Being An Entrepreneur
September 4th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Woow, that is a tough call. If I were in his shoes, 38, no retirement, 3 kids and making $60,000 I would go. But in my shoes, nope! I am young, I am still at school and I have time to save the money.
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September 9th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I couldn’t do it. That’s a lot of money, but so far away from family and friends. I guess it would probably make you really appreciate your life, family, friends, house, and everything else when you came back after a year. $290k makes you think some other “work” is involved. Does Iraq have a state tax or federal tax rate?
Scott @ The Passive Dad’s last blog post..Alternative Income Idea: Stringing Tennis Rackets
September 11th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Definitely a difficult call and I feel for anyone making that tough of a decision. As for me, I can’t say any salary is worth dying for, no matter how much I was offered. Yet, I’m not in his situation.
If Hank’s potential job doesn’t involve entering a combat unit, I could see some small justification for going.
Either way, best of luck and let us know what you decide.
September 11th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Hello. I am actually really interested in this type of job. I work in the IT field as well. How do you find these types of jobs? Thanks for your time!
September 12th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
If you dont go I will go in your place no problem
September 12th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
@InvestmentPlayground - very good point. We shouldn’t just go because it is “Iraq” but it is similar to any scenario where you go ANYPLACE dangerous. There are risks. I wouldn’t want to take a job in Compton, California either for similar reasons. I hear you on the cultural pieces, people are people, agreed. But the danger still exists that people take into account.
@Orange - Indeed. Different strokes for different folks.
@Scott - I have heard government jobs aren’t taxed, or very little, so close to the whole amount would be bagged.
@Matt - it’s not actually me that got the offer, my buddy did - but yea, the combat zone issue would come in. I haven’t heard news on that front, but it carries a lot of weight indeed.
@Don and @fran - there are plenty of places to look for a job there - google turns up a few:
http://www.alliraqjobs.com/
http://iraq.jobs.com/
http://federalgovernmentjobs.us/job-location/iraq.html
http://www.careers.state.gov/iraq-jobs/index.html
September 12th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I’m in Afghanistan, for less where can I apply for this job at!!
September 13th, 2008 at 3:13 am
Im exmilitary from Spanihs forces, i dont maind to go back./ just ledt me know
September 13th, 2008 at 3:30 am
It is a hard thing to do but I would do it if I were given the chance. My daugther went and is now back and set for life. It is very hard to stay away for a year. But it can be done. And well worth the effort.
We have no promise of tomorrow no matter where we are. If someone feels good about doing something then they should do it.
September 13th, 2008 at 5:49 am
I just read your problem on the front of msn, I would think that your relationship would be fine. Is Your life worth $290,000 that’s up to you. Now if something did happen, how would your wife and kids survive if something terrible did happen? I am kind of in the same boat, I have 3 little girls 4,3,1 and another due in January. I am the sole provider and will make about $70,000. If something happened to me they would be lost and the damage to the family could be lifelong. Is THAT worth $290,000 to you? To me I don’t think so…
September 13th, 2008 at 6:04 am
Don’t be such a wuss. It is not that bad over there especially for US civilians. I’ve been there before and I’m going again next month with a wife and 2 kids. And I’m going for less than 290K. If I was offered 290K, I’d be over there for 5 years straight without coming home to see the family.